I decided I might as well hit all the hot topics I wanted to discuss before moving on to less controversial subjects on feminism. Today’s topic: pubic hair. Please be advised that this post will definitely contain mature and sensitive content. If this isn’t a subject you want to discuss, come on back next week!
Let’s just get right down to it: Is removing your pubic hair anti-feminist?
Now again, let me offer the same assurance in this post that I did in the last – that I respect EVERY woman’s right to choose what is right for her regarding personal grooming habits. My intention is to simply discuss this trend, its relationship with feminism and its sexual, psychological and cultural implications.
For those of you who have been a Five Seed reader for the past year or longer, you know that I put a lot of stock in Mother Nature. When it comes to our bodies, I believe that the less we interfere, the better. I also believe that if something is part of our body – it’s there for a reason! That includes pubic hair.
Now I must admit to being a bit of a hypocrite in this area. I shave my armpits and my legs and I pluck the occasional rogue eyebrow hair. Those are cultural ideals of beauty that I have not been able to escape. However, when it comes to having hot wax near my lady bits on a regular basis…that gives me pause!
Waxing, as you have probably heard in the news these past few years, can be particularly dangerous, especially in such a sensitive area of the body. Linda K. Franks, M.D., a dermatology professor at NYU’s School of Medicine says, “Pubic hair is there for a reason – to protect the sensitive skin and mucous membranes in the genital region. Getting a wax literally strips away that layer of protection. Anytime you compromise the integrity of the skin [which waxing does], you’re going to increase your risk of infection.”*
Beyond the potential risks involved with waxing, I simply cannot fathom enduring the pain of such a procedure on a regular basis. It hurts bad enough to wax your legs! As with high heels, I wonder: Why should we have to endure pain in order to be considered “beautiful?”
Now that brings me to my greatest problem with bikini waxing. Why is it considered beautiful in the first place? Like armpit hair, pubic hair is a secondary sex characteristic, exhibiting our physical sexual maturity. The idea of stripping off this hair (and the trend is moving toward complete removal, not just the “landing strip” look) is very disturbing to me. Are we, as a culture, teaching ourselves and men to associate sexual attractiveness with the sexual characteristics of a young girl instead of a grown woman?
My generation seems to be phasing out women with natural pubic hair, and the next is seemingly peopled with women who think pubic hair is “gross” and men who have never seen anything more than a landing strip on a woman. “It’s what’s expected these days,” said one bikini waxer to Sunday Times’ writer, Sarah Vine. With the widespread availability of internet porn, teens and twenty-somethings see hairless women as the norm. “I get girls coming in here who haven’t even lost their virginity; but they’ve seen all this stuff on the internet, and they think having hair down there is gross — dirty, even.”
Is porn to blame for this trend?
This isn’t just a female-driven trend, either. Men have become increasingly interested in the state of their partner’s nether regions. According to my circle of friends, the new “pre-sex question” is not “Do you have a condom?” but “Do you have hair down there?” When Salon contributor, Christina Valhouli, asked her friend Chad about his reaction to his girlfriend’s “baldness,” his response was, “…when I felt her it was like, oh my God, an unbelievably primal welling of emotion. First from the shock and then from the whole little girl eroticism of it. It’s hard to describe. I guess it was like tasting forbidden fruit.” UK author, Janice Turner, says, “You don’t need to page Dr. Freud to wonder how the craze for bare pudenda might be tied to some unsavory fetishisation of youth. And now the waxed look is supported by a massive industry — hair removal in Britain is worth £280 million a year.”
Dr. Stephen Snyder, writing for Psychology Today, compared the stark contrast between the “full bush” of the 1970′s to today’s preference for being completely hairless. “I worry that it now seems mandatory for young women to do it,” Snyder writes. “Among many young men that I see in treatment, the sight of a woman’s pubic hair produces the same revulsion that in my day might have greeted the sight of her armpit hair. Vulvar hair is regarded as unsightly – or even disgusting. That can’t be good. Have all our field’s efforts to encourage young women to celebrate their bodies come to this – to their having to alter them so their partners won’t be disgusted? This can’t be progress.”
Even children – yes, children – are having this procedure done. One waxer describes her experience at Salon: “I used to have mothers come in to have me wax their 11- and 12-year-old daughters — lipline, eyebrows, full leg, bikini. Sometimes the nannies would bring them in, and the nannies would have to hold their hands… I’ll tell you, sometimes it felt like child abuse.” Why the waxing-for-children trend? Some believe that early waxing will prevent pubic hair from growing in the first place (heaven forbid!). Feminist Fatale explains, “virgin waxing is a pro-active measure designed to eradicate pubic hair in 2 to 6 sessions, eliminating the need for lifetime waxing. The salon claims that the savings can be applied directly to a college fund. Well, I am guessing that these virgin waxing treatments aren’t cheap in the first place and the notion that a girl’s pubic hair will be removed before she gets it, maintaining her pre-pubescent appearance is inherently disturbing.”
But what about the other side to this issue? Some women claim that they simply like having a hairless haven. Some have said that it makes them feel cleaner, more aware of their sexuality, more empowered, more beautiful, more naughty. According to Psychology Today, “A recent report by Dr. Debra Herbenick in The Journal of Sexual Medicine found that women in their sample who went hairless reported better genital self-image overall, and more sexual satisfaction.” This is all good and fine, but I can’t help but wonder: Why does it make us feel this way? Is the relationship between “empowerment” and a bald genital region a product of our culture? Is our sexual satisfaction connected with our feelings of being more beautiful and “acceptable” to our partners? Aren’t we already programmed to think that hairlessness is more beautiful, more sexy? Therefore, aren’t we just buying into the cultural ideal?
This is an issue Dr. Snyder questions, as well. According to the data he shares, the majority of polled women go hairless in their nether regions at least some of the time. Is that troubling, or simply the evidence of today’s trend that will eventually pass? And where is this trend leading us? As Snyder points out, there are some worrisome factors at work here that may or may not prove to be related to the hairless trend: “…How about the recent surge in vulvoplastic surgery – women going under the knife to have their inner labia trimmed. Am I the only one who suspects this has been prompted by shaving or waxing? After all, back in the moonwalk era, whoever noticed labial protuberance or asymmetry?”
While you may argue that men are under similar pressure these days to look good and appear hairless, I’d have to partially disagree. It is true that men are flocking to the spas to get their chests, backs and other areas waxed, but the cultural standards and pressures are different – especially when it comes to the genital area! I have read that men are starting to get Brazilians. However, some of the reasons I read include making them feel more sensitive during intercourse and wanting their penises to look larger. This is a vastly different set of reasons than women typically have, although the latter is definitely a cultural pressure to “look” a certain way. And when it comes to the rest of the body, one article said, “We’re not advocating waxed legs or arms — jeez, a dude should look like, well, a dude…” If a “dude should look like a dude,” shouldn’t a lady look like a lady?
Yeah, waxing hurts, dude! (Steve Carell in 40 Year Old Virgin)
In the end, my problem with pubic hair removal is simple: I fear it is the attempt of our culture to strip away our womanhood. Adult sexuality is a powerful thing and to live in a culture that asks us to turn ourselves into little girls from the hips down, to me, has the potential to strip us of some of that power if we aren’t careful. It perpetuates the notion that we need to alter the bodies Mother Nature gave us in order to be sexually attractive. And it is yet another beauty routine that causes PAIN!
I’m not suggesting that we leave our nether regions alone and never do any yard work down there. We shower, style our hair, wear deodorant, use perfume…there’s certainly nothing wrong with maintaining our gardens, as well. And if getting waxed down to baldness truly makes you feel sexy and empowered, then I say keep doing what works for you!
I’m simply saying that I feel it’s dangerous that being hairless is becoming the norm for women. I don’t think that’s healthy and I think it’s particularly damaging to the next group of girls coming of age. We should not be allowing our young girls to grow up thinking that pubic hair is disgusting or unsightly and that it needs to be removed in order to make them sexually attractive. I honestly believe that we need to have frank conversations with our daughters, nieces and younger sisters about this subject, however awkward it may be. Our girls need to know that their bodies are perfect just the way they are, and that they have the choice to do what they want!
What do you think?
*Some doctors have recently gone on record as saying that pubic hair has no purpose whatsoever and that there are no dangers in removing it. These statements are made to support the multi-million dollar waxing business, so I can’t help but be suspicious. This wouldn’t be the first time that experts were paid a lot of money to bend the truth.
I saw a documentary from Britain, where the trend is to have the labia reshaped. I guess removing hair is a minor issue compared to that. It’s a funny thing. Back in the 70s, women’s lib was supposed to change society so that women weren’t viewed just as sex objects. I’m starting to believe that women are less free now than they were back in the 50s.
@Teri: Honestly, I wonder. I have had the same thoughts. Seems like in many ways, we are less liberated. It’s as if our personal freedom in the world (with our ability to do whatever we want, independently – no more counting on a man for fulfillment or money or stability or even children!) is bought with these physical sacrifices for beauty that are painful and unnatural. Crazy!
I think it’s revolting that women would try to eliminate something that is clearly part of being a woman. We are not meant to look like children, and I am honestly creeped out by any man who wants their woman to look like a young girl down there. Trim it? Fine. But bare skinned? It’s denying your womanhood as far as I’m concerned.
@ecogrrl: I hate this trend more than any, perhaps. I’d rather put up with the high heels!
So back in the days before I didn’t have to move my mama-belly out of the way to see my nether regions, I shaved a couple of times because my hubs (then-boyfriend) wanted me to. I thought because men are visual, they like to see…uh…everything–that’s what the hubs said. However, the quote about the primal welling of emotion at the “little girl eroticism…” LITTLE GIRL EROTICISM?? What the hell? Sorry, but I can go ahead and say that at ten, there was nothing erotic about me? At all. Bleagh. Shudder. Eargh. I MIGHT have considered shaving again just for him to get his kicks because, you know, I’m a generous gal sexually, but I don’t think I’ll ever be able to again after that quote. And I will be verrrrrry carefully monitoring my children’s standards of adult beauty thanks to it. Shudder, part deux.
@Heather: I have heard that, too – that men like to look at the curves and lines of the female genitals and of course, you can’t really see them if you don’t wax or shave. But yeah, that quote freaked me out, too! I’m hoping that that perspective is in the minority and that simply having a look “what’s underneath” is the primary desire – not to find “little girls” erotic! Ick!
I’m one of the only people I know in my circle of friends that uses cloth wipes to wipe my bum or cloth pads while on the rag (which is ironic because I grew up calling it “the rag” and only switched to cloth pads after college). I’ve been on both sides of the to-be or not-to-be hairless heaven debate. What I personally have come to discover is that I started being hairless at the request of a romantic partner as she didn’t want a mouth full of hair, and out of respect for other partners I’ve continued to go hairless particularly when in a relationship. I also find it easier to keep things cleaner down there when I was hairless.
I do have friends that don’t shave their underarms, but I personal prefer to shave or wax their as well. I’ve tried going without and I just don’t like the way it feels. I’ve become a don’t really use deodorant type person very often person, but felt like I had more of an odor when I didn’t’ remove that hair.
@Hope: Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. You offered some perspectives that I did not much think of when writing this post. For one thing, as you mentioned, if you partner prefers a shaved or waxed “haven,” and the other person is indifferent to waxing/shaving, then why not? That is a thoughtful compromise between lovers that I think is also a very valid reason for keeping oneself hairless. Additionally, if you use cloth pads, that can be a little messier than commercial pads, and the issue of keeping clean down there is also a perfectly valid reason for going hairless. (I use cloth pads, as well, but mostly the Diva Cup.)
The issue of legs and underarms is also interesting to me – as I mentioned in the post, I keep myself pretty hairless in those areas (except in the wintertime, when I get lazy!). So I see the hypocrisy in that – why not shave all the body hair, if I’m going to do that? That’s definitely something to think about – why some of us (me) worry about the trend of hairlessness in the nether regions, but not the underarms or legs. Hmmmm….
Thank you again!
The first time I went hairless, I did it because I wanted to try it out — not because a lover wanted me to. I was in my early teens and had never been sexually active. I had never seen porn and had never talked about pubic hair with anyone (I would have probably died of embarrassment first). I was just shaving my legs and thought, hey, why not all the rest of this?
All in all, I enjoy going bare. It’s been a good fifteen years since I did it the first time, and while I’ve had lovers who certainly appreciated my preference, I’ve never done it for anyone other than myself. That being said, my life is very full and I only usually have time once a week to put forth the proper amount of time and attention needed, hence why my vote is a “sometimes” instead of “always.”
As far as men associating bareness with “little girl eroticism,” I think that’s a niche opinion. Many men are growing up on porn with bare nether regions, and are associating it with sexuality and eroticism. It’s a little unfair to say that it directly relates to fantasies about little girls — if a man discovered his sexuality in adolescence while watching waxed and shaved porn stars, he’s likely going to associate “bare down there” as being both normal and sexy.
Is that a problem? Does that reinforce your commentary about it being concerning that it’s viewed as “normal?” Absolutely. I don’t think anyone should feel pressured to undergo something they don’t want for themselves, especially when it’s painful. However, something tells me you’re going to have a hard time convincing the porn industry to encourage their ladies to go au naturale.
@Katsa: Thank you very much for your incredibly thoughtful comments. As I read some people’s thoughts, I realize there are a lot of things I failed to mention – I should have made this a two-parter! One was that, as you said, many women (perhaps all of us?) probably experiment with going hairless at least once in our lives, just to see what it’s like. I also think the issue of shaving vs. waxing is worth discussing. While shaving isn’t a big deal to me, waxing seems so extreme. I understand why women do it (if they prefer to go hairless) yet, I don’t understand why we would embrace a beauty standard that is so wickedly painful.
I also agree that “little girl eroticism” is probably (hopefully) a niche opinion, but I do think it speaks to a dangerous (and possibly growing) group of men in our culture who really DO festishize little girls. There is, tragically, a market for porn featuring teen and pre-teen girls, or even kiddie porn. Scary stuff. But my point is that the trends that the sex industry follows (and even creates) are worrisome to me, and now that the sex industry is more widely available than ever (to our youths as well as adults), then the worry becomes what we are teaching the younger generations about sexuality and the human body. But just as you said – this isn’t something we’re going to be able to fix within the industry!
Again, thank you for your fabulous comment – it is a pleasure to hear people’s honest opinions about this subject!
I spent three years being bare. And I hate pain and am a huge prude.
I really enjoyed reading your post, it was very thoughtful and well written. I think you have a point on all areas- Even though I feel like I made the choice to wax (except for a strip), I was most certainly influenced by what our society views as ‘beautiful’- I thought it looked so much prettier bare. Honestly, I felt ‘sexier’. Those things are definitely all culturally influenced and although I don’t regret my choice, I need to recognize where it came from (and that it wasn’t necessarily a ‘choice’).
That being said, I do think there were other reasons why I kept it up-
1. it was MUCH less work and upkeep. No trimming, no shaving around there.
2. It was so much softer and the hair grows back so much thinner.
3. It felt amazing. Honestly.
That said, it has been about two years since I’ve had that done. Mostly because it costs money (65$ ish every time around here… unless you want to go to a sketchy place- which I do not). Also, on top of that I’d have to buy topical anesthetic to manage the pain- which I’ve started to wonder if it’s really all that healthy to be putting THAT on my cookie (ahem, haven, nether regions- whatev).
A society that views a pubic region with hair as sexy is one I can’t even imagine…. which tells me that we definitely have a lot more work to do with regards to changing that culture.
(also- when I asked Andrew, his answer was that he just liked ‘me’- with or without hair-
).
@EcoYogini: You WAXED?! You are brave, girl! LOL. Phew. I couldn’t even handle sugaring my legs!
Less upkeep is definitely good. It’s like my “winter legs” – when it’s cold out and I’m wearing pants all the time, I don’t want to deal with the upkeep and figure: Let it grow!
And “cookie” – that made me laugh! Love it.
This is such a multi-layered issue…I imagine we could talk about it for a long time and still have more to explore! Thank you for your comments, BTW!!
haha- i KNOW it was a totally brave move honestly. I took two extra strength advil and put emla cream on prior to. The poor lady, Delphine from France, I insited on disposable underwear to try to at least pretend I wasn’t naked and she kept having to tell me to BREATHE. I had to actually practice pranayama that I learned in yoga to get through. (exhale- RIP).
I don’t think I ever would have went back if Delphine wasn’t as kind. I’m WAY to embarrassed to not care about that kind of thing…. lol.
@EcoYogini: Yeah, I cannot imagine getting through the first rip let alone successive rips! LOL. Thank god for pranayama.
I’ve never gone completely bare and also never waxed. The only part of my body that’s regularly been waxed is my eyebrows, but I’ve recently discovered the Indian tradition of threading which is much less painful and I think it does a better job!
That said, I do prefer less hair in my nether regions than is natural. I think it’s easier to keep myself clean that way, and I do it even though I haven’t been in a relationship since the last ice age. It simply works for me, and it’s never been a matter of worrying what other people think. That said, I think guys prefer less hair, too! Those who are into the whole bald women’s bit thing… it worries me, too.
@Svasti: True – I think many women do some upkeep down there just to keep things easier. I think that’s really quite common and totally understandable. Oh, so much to say and think about!
Thank you so much for your comment!!
i see a lot of comments about how women did it ‘at a partner’s request’ which flummoxes me. if a man asked me to change my appearance to please him i’d show him the door. i’ve never had a man who’s even whispered about this – i think it’s absolutely mental to want your body to look like you’ve not gone through puberty yet. and yep, i’m saying this about everyone who does this including friends of mine who do this. also the comments about waxing being ‘less upkeep’? why would you have to ‘upkeep’ your pubic hair? it’s pubic hair. very very weird to me to see women thinking that it’s ‘unsexy’ to look the way your body was intended to look.
@Ecogrrl: I go back and forth with this. Ideally, I wish none of us had to change a darn thing about our bodies to meet any cultural standard whatsoever – up to and including shaving our legs! But then, EVERY culture has some standard of beauty – there’s no escaping that one. Also, I think that we all rub off on each other in many ways – not just in physical aspects (like asking someone to alter their appearance for our preferences) but in emotional ones, too. I think many of us (maybe all?) alter our personalities/emotions/reactions/whatever just a tad (or more) in response to who we are with. Each relationship we have (mother-daughter, lover-lover, sibling-sibling, etc.) showcases a different part of our personalities, and each one seems to bring out behaviors in us that attract desirable attention or outcomes. Sometimes I think maybe our appearance/beauty isn’t so different than that. Perhaps it is another way to behaviorally attract certain kinds of attention or approval from others. I don’t know…. But after reading some of these comments, it has made me see other people’s perspectives on this.
I really, truly wish, though, that we lived in a world that revered all people EXACTLY the way Mother Nature made them – that THAT was the ultimate standard of beauty. Wouldn’t that be wonderful?!
“…when I felt her it was like, oh my God, an unbelievably primal welling of emotion. First from the shock and then from the whole little girl eroticism of it. It’s hard to describe. I guess it was like tasting forbidden fruit.”
That is SUCH a disturbing comment. To be honest, I don’t think it’s such a niche opinion; and to be honest, I don’t think the line should be drawn at/around pubic hair removal: what about hair removal in general, for women? Isn’t that what got us to the pubes in the first place – why would we remove that hair (too) if we weren’t already removing most of the rest of our hair? (And why would we think of removing any hair at all if someone hadn’t brainwashed us into doing it in the first place?) Shaved legs and pits ARE NORMAL for women, and both of those things are secondary sex characteristics (we forget about the legs, but MY leg hair wasn’t so thick when I was a child!). I really don’t think it’s a stretch to believe it’s a denying/removal of power/maturity/adulthood in some way. With pubic hair we risk rejection from lovers, but with leg/pit hair we risk rejection from society as a whole. It takes a lot of confidence/guts to go out in the western world with leg/pit hair visible, and takes a lot of self-esteem to put up with the looks you get from people.
I’ve never been hairless down there. I stopped shaving my legs 2 years ago, and I only trim the pits now. It’s hard going out in shorts sometimes, and I’m always self-conscious at the grocery store if I’m in a tank and have to reach the top shelf. But my skin is dry under the best conditions and even worse when regularly scraped with a razor blade, and I shouldn’t need a reason anyway to allow my body to be! It’s not dirty, I shower everyday just like everybody else, use deoderant, etc. I have no trouble keeping clean, and think it’s a myth that it’s somehow “cleaner” to be without body hair.
And finally, I would LOVE for men to be assaulted with the same body hair removal pressures. That’s not actually true – I would hate it because it means the other half of the species is being told they aren’t good/acceptable as they are. It is troubling that this sort of thing becomes the norm, because any woman who chooses (chooses?? Is it “choosing” to just accept yourself as you are, rather than try to fight/deny it?) to leave her hair be is going to be viewed as abnormal, unacceptable, dirty, etc. If women would question why they ever removed any body hair in the first place, it’d be interesting to hear the responses. Guaranteed it was an external pressure – not because of any internal desire to prevent puberty/maturation/etc. If nobody were removing body hair, none of us women would be doing it either because probably for most of us the idea would never occur in the first place. You don’t see teenage boys randomly deciding to shave their legs/pits out of curiosity. Think about it.
Anyway, good on your, author person, for discussing the topic and asking some questions. I wish more folks out there were doing the same.
@Amelia: Whew! You have got some AMAZING points here! This is really fantastic, and goes back to what keeps getting to me again and again when I think of this issue: Why should it be normal for us to remove any hair? Really, doesn’t it all come down to that? Or rather, to feeling any pressure whatsoever to alter our bodies in any way in order to fit the societal standard of beauty? That’s it, right there. That’s the core of the issue to me.
Thank you so much for stopping by and leaving this amazing comment. I’ll be posting parts of it on Facebook and perhaps in another blog post!
Wow, you touched on a subject that really hits home for me. I never liked being hairy…becoming a woman was hard for me because of that. Probably because of all those ads of near-naked women with no body hair. I couldn’t wait to shave my pits and legs. The pubic hair I didn’t worry about until I was much older. I found it a horrible experience shaving my bikini line. I would get razor burn, and when the hair grew back it was painful, and I got a lot of ingrown hairs. But no way did I want anyone seeing my pubic hair when I wore a swimsuit! I longed for old-fashioned swimsuits that kept that area covered. I tried depilatory cream, and that didn’t work. So I waxed. Soooo painful. I thought, WHY? Why do I have to do this??? And since I didn’t see hairy bikini lines on ANY other girls, I actually believed I was abnormally hairy. It made me very insecure. I didn’t know it was the norm to wax.
When I was a young adult, I read somewhere that men find pubic hair on a woman attractive because it indicates her womanhood. I was still a virgin, and that news was very comforting to me. Then I had a stupid boyfriend who told me that that area should be “groomed.” He made it sound like I wasn’t taking proper care of my body! That really hurt, and then I began to wonder if I did have poor personal grooming because I didn’t trim down there. I had always assumed the hair was there for a reason, and now I wasn’t so sure. I didn’t change it for him, though.
Then after I got married, my husband said something about how “some guys” like it when women shave down there, and I was like WHAT??? I immediately thought of razor burn and ingrown hairs. Waxing down there seemed like insanity to me. What was more, I was totally grossed out by the thought of women trying to look like young girls, and men being turned on by it. That just seemed really sick to me.
What really bothers me, with this and other changes women make to their bodies for the sake of beauty, is that it changes the standard. It sets a higher, unrealistic standard of beauty that women feel compelled to try to attain. I would rather just look like me, but with all these Barbies around, it’s hard for a normal-looking girl to feel attractive.
For the most part, I let things be down there. I trim once in a while, mostly because of my period, although I am planning to get a bidet so I can just rinse it clean. Trimming seems reasonable. But I don’t put any creams, razors, or wax anywhere near that sensitive area. And I wear shorts when I go swimming.
@Lisa C: You brought up so many important points!! First of all, swimsuits are definitely a problem, and I’m sure many of us started “grooming” our nether regions when we realized that today’s cuts show areas that are normally a little hairy! LOL. But you also mentioned that you didn’t see this on any other girls, and therefore assumed that you were abnormally hairy. OMG, this is such a big point! I felt the same way, and I’m sure many girls feel this way, as well. It is simply something we don’t talk about, and therefore, we assume, which perpetuates the problem!
I have also been shocked in the past when I hear guys prefer less hair (or no hair). It generally upsets and/or annoys me, because I automatically feel less attractive, less feminine, less desirable. Again, probably true for most women, and that’s not how we should feel in a relationship!
And yes…the whole child-sexuality thing….very disturbing to me.
Oh, and about the porn thing, and bald genitals in general. Am I the only one that sees this as a danger to CHILDREN? If men are being turned on by hairless genitals these days, what happens if they see a little girl’s?
I’ve never thought of this topic in that way before. But so gross about men being attracted to hairless women that look like children. That is disgusting. And yeah, Lisa’s right, that’s so dangerous to children. And it’s so much more disturbing now that I have a daughter.
@Cassie: I so agree!
Women are more liberated in some ways since the 50′s. But they are also less liberated in other respects.
Women are turning into sex-objects more & more. Women are always judged by their appearance. But not by how beautiful they look, but how young they look. Youth is the new beauty today. They have to have faces like 5 year olds & anorexic bodies. Jessica Alba & Karen Gillan are good examples of this. They look like little girls, but everyone describes them as sexy.
That’s something else I have a problem with. Since when is ‘sexy’ a good thing? The sexier you look the less respect you get from men, they may give you a lot of attention & try being really nice to you, but it is negative attention. The sexier the more ‘feminine’ the more you are like a half-human instead of a full/well-rounded human. I’m going into an area now though that most of you don’t agree with probably so I’ll go back to my main argument.
Women in the media are looking younger & younger & they are becoming more & more like sex-objects – THIS CAN NOT END WELL!
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an increase in pedophilia.
Next time you women want to do something unnatural to your bodies that you think will make you ‘beautiful’ or ‘accepted’ by the opposite sex, please ask yourselves first if men do the same to be ‘beautiful’ & ‘accepted’ by you. Why do you feel you need to be accepted by sexist, ignorant jerks anyway???
If your partner is going to be disgusted by your natural appearance than why would you want him as your partner? Better a crap-man than no man I suppose the motto is. Why aren’t you disgusted by the site of HIS armpits or pubic hair?
@LegoDaleks: I do agree that there is far too much interest in a woman’s looks – from ourselves, from men, from our culture. And you are right – youth is something that is far too highly prized.
I’m not sure I agree that sexy is a negative thing – but I think I understand your point. Why do we hold such value in sexiness as opposed to other qualities? I couldn’t agree with THAT more!
I also agree that porn is not wholly to blame – our whole culture is inundated with these ideas of what a “sexy” woman should look like. I think you’re right that there’s an incredible amount of fear behind this desire to be beautiful and accepted. Some women don’t talk about these things for any number of reasons, and there is that fear of not being accepted by a lover. However, I think that holds true on both sides – men can be just as insecure about their sexuality as we are. I think that’s fairly normal in our culture. Not that it’s a good thing, though! I wonder what we would all be like with a little more confidence in ourselves and what we consider to be sexy.
I love what you said about teaching our children not to be influenced by our culture’s beauty norms – teaching them that they aren’t necessarily so normal!
That it’s choice that should dictate their beauty habits, not the pressure from our overly-sexualized media.
Finally, I apologize, but I cut two small bits from your comment that I was worried might be objectionable to other readers. I try to keep it PG-13 here, though I realize it’s all subjective in the end. Just an instinctive choice I made, and I hope you understand. I am very appreciative of the time you took to leave your thoughtful comments here. Thank you!
I’ve got some more to add now that I have read more of the comments:
I wouldn’t blame porn, but the media in general as well as the lack of education (other than text book education) people receive from school as well as in the HOME.
(People aren’t taught to think for themselves. The majority of them are sheep. Everyone watches the same films & all have the same opinions about them. I’ve noticed that women take things to heart very easily & quickly. All you have to have is a woman on some sitcom jokingly say what men like, this can then make the woman I’m watching the sitcom with forget everything else she had been taught previously)
I know a lot of people who I, for the most part, consider to be as intelligent if not more intelligent than myself, except when it comes to appearance – that’s when they all of a sudden lose most of the IQ points. Why do women put so much importance on conformance??? They seem to fear non-comformance more than anything.
Nobody knows what looks good anymore, they are just society’s zombies. My little sister scratched up her nails with a nail-filer then showed me her scratched-up nails & said: “Doesn’t it look nice?” – and she wasn’t kidding! She had used the tool incorrectly, but because of the amount of times she saw filing-nails as a depiction of beautifying oneself, she became utterly blind to what was in front of her. This may sound ridiculous to you since she was a child at the time, but I’m trying to put it in perspective, because the sight of her scratched nails did not look more ridiculous to me than when I see women in high-heels!
Women must learn to apply critical thinking & start questioning things & not just blindly accept what is considered the norm when it comes to “beauty”.
Back to my initial point:
I started watching internet porn at a very early age, but it has not affected my taste (that much). I say ‘that much’ because even though I do remember a time when I was a child & felt sexually attracted to women, I never thought their breasts or bottoms to be of significance – that most definitely comes from the media or culture or whatever, & I think anyone who says otherwise is just a victim of propaganda. As a kid you learn that breasts are for feeding infants. I always liked naked women but I remember thinking it rather peculiar the first time I saw a man on TV talk about how sexy a woman’s breasts are & …. Okay, I understand the enjoyment of the woman’s body but why the focus on the breasts? They have been transformed into the main part of the woman as well as a sexual organ & on par with the penis. Anyway I keep digressing.
Nowadays I prefer porn that is most natural, even though the majority of it is is – skinny, breast-implants, tanned, make-up, shaved pubes, high-heels, unmarried of course, a dozen positions, woman faking it… – I still have my preferences that are the complete opposite. And I cannot convince myself that it is some inner ability that I was born with that makes me more capable of being more strong-willed than anyone else.
We must learn to question things & use logic & know history (did you know for instance that pink used to be for boys & blue for girls, so our social norms aren’t that fixed). We should also teach our children to not be so heavily affected by a hairless woman in a commercial that it leads them to act upon it, or otherwise feel insecure or inadequate.
When I take a wife i want her to be human before being a “woman” (societal “normal” woman), I want to please her (& not have the only thing that pleases her be pleasing me) (-I have read research on women who’s feelings are heavily affected by how they think they appear to others i.e. before she considers how she feels within herself she wants to look good & if she feels she looks good only then she can express a positive emotion.), I don’t want her to be ruled by trend & fear being a non-conformist. Picky bugger aren’t I?
Anyway I think I’ve written too much already, so I’ll just end on that.